Series Rescue, Vol. 1 | Mana, Mario & Luigi, Atelier

Gerry (00:00.27)
I don't know it's like intriguing cuz you're like where are you well some of them when they're like holy fuck some fucking hat like it's just like so you're from Ireland like you're from Ireland My son I'm gonna tell you something right now we're gonna go to the fucking mouth we're going to the fucking man cuz I got fucking $20 in my pocket I want to fucking spend right now

would.

What I say though?

Aaron (00:33.358)
This is the Macklemore podcast welcome if you're listening this far We only know one song and we're gonna cover we're gonna do 150 episodes breaking down that fucking song

Welcome back. We're back. Don't you love it when we're back? I like it when we're back. It's fun when we're back.

Mm-hmm.

We certainly are here.

streets back.

Aaron (00:56.874)
Alright. Alright. Thank you. man, I was driving to the grocery store earlier today. Yeah. And, what Britney Spears song was it that came on? was fucking jamming. Was it?

Toxic?

Or was it like one of the ones on Circus? Like, gimme gimme more.

man. All of my sensei- oops I did it again.

Yeah

Gerry (01:24.183)
Yes, when she went to space

Yeah dude, that so cool. And she talked to him more.

That was the space one, right? With the super tight red jumpsuit.

Yeah,

Do know that the red jumpsuit apparatus, that emo band, that's where they got the name from? From that Britney Spears video? No.

Beth (01:43.212)
Really?

Get out of town.

Beth (01:49.019)
wow!

you

Beth (01:54.574)
What else say something interesting I've not like I've thought about with like you and Greg is that bullshit

Sweet facts.

Or you know.

Gerry (02:03.662)
Please not like that.

No, no, what I was gonna say was that, like, Greg, like, you know, jokes around are like, bullshit to get a reaction out of people so often that I'm naturally more skeptical of every time he says a fact. But you do it so little that like, when you're going for it, I believe you because like, it's not something you do very often, right?

If there's a reason I'm in sales. There's a reason. I'm having deja vu. Did I do, like, did we already do this? I'm having deja vu. What the fuck is going on?

stealth

Gerry (02:44.494)
I'm not I'm not in your deja vu

Gerry (02:51.534)
Yeah, welcome. Welcome back to Super Ghost. We have some super important breaking news to talk about. Over you, Aaron.

Aaron (03:09.71)
To me?

Over to you, Aaron!

you

Gerry (03:18.38)
Go fuck yourself, Iowa!

What is it?

Am I frozen? No. okay.

We're waiting for you to talk!

I am talking.

Beth (03:34.414)
I'm guessing is there something with those super report breaking news you want to start off with?

I don't have anything. What?

Nothing?

You got nothing for super important breaking news? We were just talking about somebody that we have for important breaking news. Continue. Don't do this. No. Aaron, hit me, baby. One more time.

Aaron. I don't know.

Beth (04:02.412)
Do you want to give him a hint?

Aaron (04:07.438)
Okay, Britain here, watch!

Now it's time for Britain Wouch. So, have s-

So painful.

But we got there. That's the main thing we got there. No, I don't mean to dunk on Britney Spears again, but she showed up once again in my newsfeed. So.

Your phone hears you talking about me, so not-

Gerry (04:28.078)
When Miss Spears- She did it one more- she's gonna continue doing it too. She was dancing around. Yeah, that was it. She was dancing around.

shows it one more time.

Aaron (04:34.094)
She did it again. Sorry, continue.

Beth (04:43.448)
She was just dancing and people are reporting on it.

Titties were out. Fully? Well, see-through thingy. Ass was like fully out.

She's at the club who gives a shit. That's just too

She was in her

That's her home still.

Beth (05:01.44)
Yeah, who cares? I'm- Look, She's not at like walking around a supermarket.

This is me.

different

Aaron (05:08.919)
No, was last

subs last week.

You're lying about that, that one I know you're lying about.

No, she was just dancing and her titties were out. Okay. I wasn't even mad about it.

In the comfort of

Gerry (05:20.846)
I wasn't mad about it. I'm just saying she's out there again in the wild doing shit. I don't know.

Jerry, you know what's shocking? She's always out there in the wild doing stuff. By nature of being alive.

you

Yeah. She has been for almost all of my life.

Yeah, God, I cannot wait until she like until she likes a stogie on a plane again fuck that was so cool

Gerry (05:47.726)
that was the best. That was the best.

I don't know, I think she's a hero.

You're smoking on that plane? Yes.

No.

Beth (05:59.17)
Right.

She is a hero though. Yeah, she she's talented. She's the she's a survivor of the whole What the fuck was it called the thing with her and her dad? Yes, yes

conservatorship. But I, I mean, I slightly would argue that like, me a person who had her her like life and her childhood and they're a normal person. Like, you know, I given everything that she's had to like deal with and go through and like, people, I just I'm like, you know what?

Now we're going to talk

Gerry (06:33.887)
It's just like Michael Jackson. We gave him a pass too.

He went through some shit and he fucking touched some kids and now he's dead. That's true. Now he's dead So now we just give him a pass and when his songs come on you fuck a bop to him you're like But these songs are fucking awesome

think that's technically still supposed to say allegedly touch those gates. yeah. I'm not. He and hey, you know what I will say about when his music comes on? He's dead and he can't get any royalties. So.

mean.

Aaron (07:10.957)
Oh Does that mean we can use the his music all we you know, no, no, no, no, it's just copyrighted by fucking record holder. Yeah, never mind

No.

Buddy, there's still like 14 of those Jacksons still kicking around, There was a lot of them, true.

Plus for something to get into the public domain, the person has to be dealt with. Things go into the public domain 50 years after they've died or something like that.

They gotta have like a celebration where they dig him back up and put him on strings and shit and they're like, celebrate his life! Now we can steal his songs!

Beth (07:41.846)
You know-

you can do is you can get Seambutt Willie.

That's true. We're gonna use Steve-O-Williamson, his super ghost intro song

He is free. He's up for grabs.

Just like welcome and hit the music happy birthday to you

Aaron (08:07.436)
It's evil.

Yeah, it's about really singing like that version of Mickey Mouse singing. Happy birthday because both and we're like, yeah.

Jerry Jerry I need you to listen very carefully. I need you to make like a mick gordon-esque like steamboat willy remix That would be really really cool that we're gonna use that for our intro or something to be awesome

Yeah, I mean there are other things in Super Important Breaking News that are video game related. They're video game related. If you haven't already, folks, if you like horror games as much as I do, please go check out the trailer for the Mortuary Assistant movie because it looks nuts. I think they... Yeah, it's done. It comes out like next month.

Doing a movie?

Beth (09:00.908)
I want you play that game for five minutes.

No, you know what though? The movie looks like Evil Dead. It looks wild. Like I'm excited. I hope it, I hope they just didn't show all the good shit in the trailers. think like, I hope that they, they do it justice. Like I'll watch it regardless, but yeah, I want to watch that. And I want to watch that primate movie too. I want to see that monkey rip people's faces. dude. I heard it's scary as fuck too.

Hmm, interesting.

Gerry (09:43.864)
Beth, you have the floor. Yeah. Over to you, Beth.

I do?

Aaron (09:51.694)
Take it away,

Nothing new to report in still playing stellar blade haven't touched anything else since Really close to the end actually Yeah, really close and in the super special secret area that Jerry never got to see When he played and I liked everything so far with the game I'm so like even so kind of

frame this. Both you Jerry and Greg had played this game. year it came out, if I'm remembering correctly. And both of you were like, you know what, stories, nothing special. You know, it's not like revolutionary. And that you're also like, meh, Eve as a character, kinda weak sauce, but fun to play.

serviceable enough gets the job done kind of that was the energy that I got like while both of you still were like absolutely play it it's super fun you know we had a great time like you you will like this game so going into it I had going into it I had incredibly low expectations for what the story was going to be and then how I was going to feel about the characters for sure

And Jesus, will. I was I'm surprised by how much I'm actually liking the story and characters. I will say, you know, Jerry, did you get what are you doing? Are you OK? OK, OK, I'll just I'll ignore. I'll keep going. Everything's fine. But I actually think this story is like better than what you guys sold it. Like, I think you were underselling it a little. What was going on?

Gerry (11:30.766)
Keep doing it.

Beth (11:47.33)
I will agree in the sense that, you know, it's definitely not, you know, reinventing a wheel, but it is doing the type of story that it's setting out to do very well. Like I am intrigued to see where these, these mystery beats go and like the direction that they kind of end up landing on with, you know, all of the stuff that they've been setting up. And cause

there are a few different ways that these type of stories do go. So I'm like, which one are they gonna go? This is interesting. And I will disagree with both of you that Eve isn't a flushed out interesting character. I actually think Eve, they do a really good job with Eve. My favorite thing about her is that like she's given.

She's given a lot of clear motivations. She executes them. You see little hints here and there about her being skeptical.

big hints. what saying?

Yes. But you see, like, you know, there are, they do a good job of showing her not just blindly following, like orders and talkie and, know, she questions things, you know, talkies talkies pretty good. I did that whole bit too. So that was fun. but yeah, I like, I think Eva's is actually a good

Gerry (13:16.513)
a little

Beth (13:27.886)
like character and both of you had said that given the ending, which I haven't gotten to yet, that it does a good job of setting up a lot of ideas with the world and with her that seem that, you know, will kind of even flesh out more. so the last thing I'll say before I rest my statement.

I think that this is an incredibly solid first entry for both the story, the character, and then obviously what I said about last time. Oh, 100%. Everything is good.

100 % I'll be yeah, do you me to be do you want me to be honest with you right now?

Always.

I don't remember what the story is about.

Beth (14:15.021)
I'm Nasha.

I don't remember. I don't know what it is. I'll play a game that's six hours long and I'll be like, I can tell you everything that happened in that game. You give me a game that's like over 13 hours and I'm like, couldn't tell you. But even simple, I can't tell you what Metal Gear Rising was about, other than the fact that I thought that game was awesome. maybe that's a bad one to pick out out of nowhere, but.

Fucking

Gerry (14:46.286)
But I mean, I just I don't know like I I know like Adam and Eve and then it didn't dawn on me until you guys literally had to spell it out for me like we had to get the fucking crayons out and be like, Jerry Adam and

You know what else you find in a garden? The garden what you would find in a garden? Lilies. like there it's Adam and Eve and Lily and like come the fuck on. But there's a lot of stuff that's like the the analog of their and that oracle is it has a tree that he's connected to. just am like all of this is so on the nose.

What?

the snake.

snake from Adam and Eve, right? The one, the snake that's like.

Aaron (15:34.562)
Yeah, the

So I'm thinking, yes. I thought you said, did you see the snake? I was like, no, but I'm like, he's connected to the tree and he has the forbidden knowledge. And, you know, he's definitely like the, the illusion to the, the snake and, know, biting the apple and all that kind of stuff. So I'm saying that like a lot of the, a lot of those allegories and a lot of like those things are so painfully on the nose, but

I don't know. It's still really like I'm like it's doing what it's doing very well. Like I don't have it.

super good game. I do remember it being very very fucking good.

Something that I want to like, and this is a not to name names moments, but I think, I just don't want to get into the conversation about some of these games again and my problems with them.

Gerry (16:26.134)
I said doxum,

Gerry (16:35.499)
well, more than that. But I think recently a lot of these, to like, for lack of a better, cause it is like as the umbrella term, like the JRPG style games, they're, they're trying to like, kind of tell these like grand existential like stories that kind of are supposed to be

Yeah.

chirpies.

Beth (17:07.048)
supposed to like, give a list of that feeling that like, near automata gave or like, you know, old school, like that kind of those feelings of like, what you maybe got when you're played like old school Final Fantasy or, you like that they're like, here, all this is what this is what makes this genre so special. And it's like, what you're forgetting, though, is that those things had something to say and clear direction the entire way through and like the the

Every character tied into that theme, each journey reflected those conversations that you were having. If you are just trying to tell a crazy cool story, it comes across incredibly empty and you end up kind of really not saying or doing anything. for, I'm sure like a lot of people, you know, and they're playing a game, they're having fun.

it doesn't matter the stories like a little bit like whatever. And that is completely valid. But I think that if you're trying to then

really trying to elevate yourself. you're kind of coming into the conversation, like, look at the things that we're talking about. Look how smart we are and like all that kind of stuff. I just, kind of like, you're sort of just speaking at it, like speaking out of your ass and it comes across to me and I just can't connect with it. And I think for gamers like me who are really coming into narrative,

for like a narrative story for the narratives part of the narrative storytelling game. I just, I'm like, you fucking fall apart or you fail at it when you're coming at it from just like ticking these boxes. And so I think that this is a very long winded way, I guess to say that, I think I appreciate it with Stellar Blade is that it's not trying to be too...

Beth (19:13.066)
up its own ass about what it's trying to say because it is incredibly like, yes, I know it's a very great. It's like, is our story. Here is our genre. You know the tropes, you know kind of where these things are going and we're not going to pretend that we're smarter than you or we're not going to pretend that we're having something to say that's so extra important in a, know, like it, it's just like.

It's there at face value.

Beth (19:43.354)
this is a genre sci-fi that we really like and here's a cool fun sci-fi story. And I'm just like, excellent, good job. You set it up, you worked your way through it, you hit some of the good tropes, you added your own like little mystery intrigue moments. And from what you guys are, you know, you and Greg have said, they follow through.

I like that.

Beth (20:10.678)
and stay consistent the whole way. then you're in it's fun to play.

It's fun to play. Really fucking fun to play. I think that's the one thing that I find about that game that's just so like, God damn, that was an enjoyable game to play. I'm not even talking

feel like it really glued it all together.

Like, it's sexual in a way, but also not. Like, it's not, like, it's intentionally like, check this shit out, but it's also not like, this is the point of the story. It doesn't revolve around, like, mean, I would revolve around that ass. But it's like,

No one in the game, but that's what no character in the game sexualizes Eve. Like that's not what her story is about. That's not what anything says. you know, there are people who are like, oh, the angels, like they're attractive or whatever, but that's not the point of her character.

Gerry (21:07.182)
It's kind of a point it's kind of they made it's a point sexy they made Jesus for no reason for white people It doesn't look like

Yeah.

like that!

No, guess what I mean, like if you pull it out on a like a metal level and you like literally ask the creator, he's like, she's hot and I like hot women and that's why I wanted to make her hot. But like when you go into the story, like into the world of it, like that's not the point of her looking that way in the game, right? to a little bit like what you were saying, Jerry, about how it's really fun to play.

Games like this, and I know that I obviously talk a lot about narrative when I talk about games like this, because it is important to me. But maybe I haven't said it enough, if the gameplay is bad, then I find the experience frustrating, which makes me kind of end up being more critical on the other aspects.

Beth (22:15.2)
some like similarly if the story isn't good then I kind of find the gameplay not good so it's like I there's no chafing between the two essentially like you know you're you're having a can you stop Jerry please for the love of all that is good

No one's, I mean, if you're... I was just...

I know what that look is.

Beth (22:42.4)
I making innuendo eyes every time I say something because she's got a big booty and thick thighs and a huge rack.

Stop. And you end on it. This is why no one can talk about this game and then people don't take it serious.

Take your eyes and make them not innuendo.

Put your eyes back inside your head.

I will say about the like everything you described earlier about how While those other games that you weren't going to Doc's basically have like big grand like What's the word I'm looking for pretentious ass stories just for the sake of having a big grand pretentious ass story that's kind of how I feel about like King like Xeno gears and like Xeno saga well Linking yeah, but yeah, it's not feel about

Gerry (23:33.557)
I'm just kidding.

Okay, Xenogears and Xenosaga, those games, or like, even like the .hack series. Like-

Were those good? I've never ever played them but I had a friend that was like, dude these games are fucking crazy because doesn't the story like continue through them all?

I was gonna say, doesn't the save file? I think that was like one of the first games I ever heard of actually like carrying over save files.

Nah, so we can end did that shit it did PS 1 but yeah some of these games No, you're all good. Yeah, just just like Beth saying like it's it's annoying as shit when games have these big huge dumb Pretentious stories that don't go anywhere. Like I don't know if you guys ever played eastward. That's how I felt about that game like I felt

Beth (24:24.503)
long time

always wanted to try that game, but I also heard from somebody else that it was just like too much fucking stupid dialogue. It was just like, what's even the point of this? Like it's not even that well written.

And like, the way, or not the way, like, I thought the story was gonna go, was gonna be like much bigger than it was. I thought they were gonna touch on a lot more than they did with the story, but then it just kind of like, just ended so fucking soon. It just ended so soon, and like there were, I think I wrote, no, I think I talked about this game on an episode of Superpot a while back about how it left like, I had this list of six unanswered questions.

I'm sorry this has taken so long for me to get through this, Beth. We'll get back to Stellar Blade. But, yeah, that game was a disappointment.

I'll never get to tell my tale of routine.

Beth (25:17.974)
No, no, we will. We will for sure. We have so we can talk forever. But no, like, like Aaron like exactly because I think that to kind of like jump could continue on from, know, your example of Eastward and saying like, you know, there is an aspect where it almost feels like it's like those types of games feel like they're talking down to you.

like in like, look, the most amazing thought I had. And it's done in a way that I don't know if you guys have had the experience this experience, I definitely

Not me

of having you may I don't know, but having someone who clearly just like maybe went to one semester of like philosophy 101. And they're like, I've had all of these thoughts. And then they like, got a topic, you know, and you're just trapped in a conversation with someone who maybe just discovered empathy exists. And like, you're like, they're like, Oh my god, did you ever like this thing and that thing and

my gosh, the perspective and you're just like, holy shit, is painful.

Aaron (26:31.117)
Yeah.

You're McDonald's, Melissa. Like, relax.

You do drunk as hell at a house party like why the fuck do think this is now?

I'm

Yeah. I'm...

Gerry (26:48.462)
that happened to you.

Yeah, I know what I'm saying. This happened to me a lot. And like my like, early to mid 20s, I go to like house parties and men who probably have only gone through like a semester or two of philosophy. The side that that at a house party is the time to be like, Oh my god, like, have you read Descartes? And like, you're having to listen to these people think they have a like,

god.

Beth (27:19.714)
these like grand, amazing original thoughts for the first time ever, but they're just regurgitating stuff from, you know, masters of the like, you know, intellectual thought. And it's like, but they're regurgitating it to you being like, you've never heard of this one before.

Yeah, take like, yeah.

I know. That's what, and so those stuff like Eastward, stuff like the games I'm not doxing, it's like they're trying to mirror what they've seen in incredibly beloved series and JRPGs. And they're like, here are the notes, here are the tropes that tick the box or whatever. But when you're not someone who has something really substantial to back up what you're saying, like you have,

That's why I back to as a positive example near Automata because Yoko Taro clearly had a full vision, a full thing that he was trying to express both narratively, like as in like what it was being said in text, but then also then what was being said to the player through gameplay actions and stuff. And that's how like he had a vision and a true direction. And that's why

It doesn't feel pretentious. Like I don't think most people will play that game. Go through, see that ending and go, my God, he's so pretentious for like talking down to me. Like obviously humanity and whatever. It's like, you don't feel that way when you finish it. Cause it isn't, it's letting you in on it. And it's not trying to just hit those boxes. yeah. This conversation is sort of not about Cellar Blade anymore.

Gerry (29:02.029)
So I play.

Gerry (29:17.71)
I Routine and it had a good story and I'm having fun with it and it scared me the most that I've been scared since the Mortuary Assistant. I had a really bad jump scare the other night.

Really?

Aaron (29:32.428)
wanna see the monsters in this game. God damn it, I never got to see one the other night.

Hang on spoiler alert. Okay, if you're playing Routine right now, or if you're wanting to play routine, please skip ahead a little bit because I think this game does a really good job of the sleight-of-hand trick Okay Okay, here's what I'll say I'll try to keep this as spoiler free as possible in terms of what you just said Yeah, but like I'm gonna spoil like

Spoiler alert.

beats of the story, I'm not gonna, or beats of the gameplay, I'm not gonna spoil anything to do with the story. Because the story is getting kind of crazy. So you're led to believe at first with this game, I mean the gun is one thing. I've talked about the gun and how you literally have to look at the gun. Yeah, I got to show Aaron a little bit of this game the other night. And yeah, you've seen, in order to change your

I guess, ammo type, you need to look at your gun and select a module to plug in and lock into the gun. And the newest thing that I got for this module was a security module. And essentially what you do is you aim your gun, which is basically like having a fucking handy cam camera. So kind of like the way that Outlast was, only not, think of Outlast like,

Gerry (31:05.44)
mid-2000s handicam quality. This is like 1980s handicam quality. So it's like really garbly and shitty looking. And like, there's like a slight delay. Like when you aim and you move, it's like, it doesn't, it's not one to one. So.

Sorry, that just, so many setups for, I'd feel so nauseous.

It's not, well, you can bring it closer to your face or you can push it back.

the character like this in real life then they go

No, I mean nauseous in the sense that like...

Gerry (31:43.79)
Oh, like the scariness of it. So it's going to get worse. It's going to get worse. It's going to worse. this module, as soon as you get it, there's like a terminal and it was like, like there was a note next to the module, like, hey, make sure you read the terminal for the instructions on this module. It's brand new. Like we're still like kind of testing it and stuff. So I'm like reading like the instructions and it's like, yeah, you just like point out the thing, wait for the symbol to appear on your gun screen, then click the trigger and then it'll unlock the security.

You might need to update it to get different security levels. Cool. Now here's what I like about this game. It does the thing where it's like, you know, like in a lot of like horror games, there's like notes or like optional things that you can read that just add into the story. Like you could play a game like this and never get a story out of it and just be like, wow, it scary. But like this kind of really does a good job of keeping it very simple. Like there's not, you're not reading like

massive page, page, page, page of super, super detailed stuff. It's like little logs on an email or messages back and forth and it'll just be like, hey, did you talk to Kenneth? I think he's sick. And then it'll be like the next email will be like, did you see that Kenneth got transferred off of the station? And it'll be like, hey, I don't feel good. I have a headache ever since I talked to Kenneth. And then it's just like, are together, we are together, we are together, we are together. And you're just like.

Everything is everything is the itchy tasty.

Yeah, so I go to this terminal and I start reading these emails back and forth from these two engineers And they're like have you been using the new module for the security system? I swear to God it's malfunctioning and then the other person's like yeah when I pointed it at the door I thought I seen something move, but it didn't show up like it was only showing up on the module And then the other person was like I saw that too But I saw it in a completely different area of the station. So like what are we seeing so then I was like

Gerry (33:44.366)
Sweet Jesus Christ Almighty. Is this a thing where like I have to point this like janky ass fucking camera? Well, I hear something and hope to God that there's not a thing standing there on my screen Dude, I'm tell you something right now They amp you up to be just like every I mean Aaron you heard it when I was playing the game You were like, what the fuck is that noise? I'm like, dude, I don't know. It's just there's creeks. There's groans. It's like

No.

Gerry (34:13.166)
the same sound design that made Dead Space scary, where like every little like tink, you're like, what the fuck was that? Is that thing or is that just the game? Like ambiance, like what are we, what is that noise? And they get you to run around this fucking area and solve all these like very intricate puzzles. And then like, I was like.

Is this game like glitching out or something? like, haven't seen any, I've been in this area for like an hour figuring out how to unlock all these different doors and stuff. I haven't seen anything.

Once I went, there was a part where I had to like do a bunch of shit in there then I had to go back out to where I came in and like activate a thing. And then it was like, okay, now you got to go activate this thing. I was like, Oh, I remember that room. That was back there. As I was going back into that area, I could hear, let me try to do the, let me try to do my best impression. It's just, it's like a moaning, like, uh,

and it keeps getting louder and louder and louder and the music started to swell and I was like, what is that sound? Yeah, music started to, music? Yeah, like it started to like, it's very similar to like the alien, the original alien soundtrack. has that kind of like, lots of like flutes and like very orchestrated. And it just starts swelling and I was like, what the fuck is happening? And I walked into a room and I just, in the corner,

What?

Beth (35:32.385)
Yeah.

Gerry (35:40.97)
of this room is this giant, naked, skinny fucking white, grayish looking thing with long ass arms, bald head, and like a huge mouth just like hunched over. And it looked at me and then it went and it did the predator thing and I was like, what the fuck was that? And then I hear, like coming toward me and I start to run, like I ran out of there, turn around, take the camera out and I just see this thing barreling towards me on the camera.

I swear to God, I out loud said, what in the fuck? I was like, holy shit dude, I thought I was gonna fucking pass out. It was the most anxiety-inducing shit I've experienced in a fucking minute in a game.

That's nauseating. That's what I meant. was like, I...

It was horrific, like horrific. And then I had to do a whole thing in there. I remember, I think I texted the group chat the other day and was like, this puzzle is killing me. Cause it's very complicated. I had to like go around, there was like a locker with like these four photos in the locker and those photos, I had to go to those locations and take the module that I got earlier, which allows you to see like,

It's like a black light. I had to take that back to the locations in the photo. So I had to look around this place. Well, this thing is stalking me. I had to look around this place for these areas and then use the module to scan it and find a symbol. And then in that locker was a piece of paper that was like, I know I'm going crazy, but this is the Rolodex of symbols and how they align with these numbers and stuff. And I had to go and find the symbols.

Gerry (37:28.174)
that were out there, and then on the back of the page, there were lines with numbers, and you had to do it backwards, because it said left to right, but when you flipped the page over, it was actually right to left. Oh, no, getting fucking stalked by this thing the whole time! I'm trying to figure out the hardest fucking puzzle of my life. Meanwhile, because I have surround sound, I could just hear behind me this thing moaning, and it getting louder, and I'm like, oh fuck, I don't have time to look at this, and I was literally taking.

pictures of my phone with my phone like shaking because I was terrified because this thing was coming and I would just be like.

Gerry (38:07.186)
And it just keep getting faster and shit. Fucking terrifying. Terrifying.

It was-

Aaron (38:13.55)
And you couldn't shoot it or anything?

So last night I was in another, dude, it gets to the point where you have to go to, you learn that there's a second annex off of this base. So you actually have to go out onto the surface of the moon to get there. And it is so crazy, you get out there and it's like, again, very simple by design. It's not reinventing the wheel or anything, but it just does all this stuff very well. You get out on the surface of the moon,

And it's got like that whole like, like you can hear yourself breathing and shit and like you can't, it's just like dead and you're just hearing like the inside of your helmet and you get across and then you go in and there's this whole other new area that I got to, but I'm still getting fucking pursued by this thing, this invisible lanky child thing. And like, I, I,

cannot tell you how fucking scared I was this whole time. But then I learned if I point, because I remember, I remember one of the emails saying, hey, don't point this thing directly at your eyes and shoot it. Stupid mistake. I pointed that gun at that monster and I flashed it with the security thing and it blinded it. And I was able to take off, I was able to actually get around it. Can't kill it. Can't hurt it.

but I could blind it and hide. But that's what makes it so tense because then you're basically like, okay, you blind it and I'm running through an area I've never been through before, searching frantically for something to hide under or just get behind. And I did, I'm hiding under this fucking desk and I could just hear this thing coming down the hallway and then coming into the room and I could see its legs and then it just vanishes. And then I hear it go back out, because it keeps like,

Gerry (40:09.23)
cloaking itself. Unfucking real, man.

very

Kinda, one sounds like that part there, like kinda reminds me of like Alien Isolation.

Yeah, it is very much like that. Yeah

And then the other thing I was going to say, do you guys remember that game called like Enemy Zero?

Gerry (40:29.582)
I don't remember that.

Uhhh, no.

I it was like a horror game that came out in the 90s-ish. But all of the enemies are invisible. All of the enemies are invisible. There's like an, you have to like, they're all audio cue based. Like you do have a gun, I think. The only reason I think, okay, this is like sort of.

never heard of that.

Beth (41:03.042)
based off of memory of watching a video essay of someone talking about the guy who created this. That's why I don't.

They've to create a routine.

No, no, The guy created Enemy Zero because I think the main character in it was like this blonde woman, and he made a bunch of games around that time where he said she was like a virtual actress. So like she was the same character, like the same person visually was like in each game. And like his head cannon for her was like that she was like, technically like.

Enemy zero.

Beth (41:44.15)
all these things were like in world like movies or something. the reason that was one of the games enemy zero that I was watching they talked about during this video I was watching. I think it's like a horror game from the 90s that all the enemies are zero are zero are all the enemies are invisible. And you it's like all audio based like you can have to listen to see when they're close to you so that you can

Yeah, you definitely gotta do that with this game or else like I think it even says like at the very beginning of the game like It's recommended to play with headphones. Usually when I see that I'm like, ooh good because that usually means that has very good surround sound Yeah, if it's if it's made to be in headphones, like I'm basically in a giant headphone room when I'm playing Yeah, it's it's scary as fuck and the reason why I said that it does a really good sleight of hand thing is because this monster This isn't what you start the game being afraid of

You're like her.

Gerry (42:40.14)
You start the game being afraid of the fucking robots that are on this.

Station Z!

alien ice.

You you start off and it's just like these malfunctioning security robots and they're just stalking you because they're like malfunctioning and shit so I was like Dude, it's actually like pretty anxiety inducing because like the way like the way that the monster sounds is very like

I get-

Gerry (43:07.79)
like it's a softer thud, whereas these things are like, kachung, kachung, kachung, kachung, and you're just like, oh fuck, oh oh fuck, oh oh oh oh oh oh oh fuck, oh oh fuck, fuck, oh fuck, oh fuck, fuck, fuck,

puzzles are good. It's not just a walking simulator. Like it's the story is very interesting and getting kind of fucked up. And it's like, it's late 70s early 80s, like future is the aesthetic and I, I love it so much. And they're definitely wearing on like they're wearing it on their sleeve. Alien Isolation totally was an inspiration for this game. And just like

alien I think in general. And I mean, I can even see like glimpses of the way that dead like just even in like this, I don't, I would almost say that alien isolation sound design isn't even close to how good the sound design is in this game. It is incredible how good the sound design is. I almost can't get over how good it is. So yeah, please, please, please, please play a routine and.

Let us know if you're as scared of this thing as I am because it scared the shit out of me. Fuck. It scared me so bad. my God, it scared me so fucking bad. and yeah. I'm also very much hooked. This doesn't happen very often and when it does, they usually fall off pretty quickly. So we'll see what happens, but I am balls deep into Elden Ring now. Night rain.

What the fuck?

Aaron (45:01.324)
Nice.

They did it. They did do the thing. They made a Souls game a roguelike. And it's really fucking cool. we finally, me and my buddy went on a couple of runs this morning and we were able to get to the first boss, finally, in both attempts. So we're getting better. Because you gotta survive like two full days and then you go fight like the final boss of like.

your target because you it's like it's cool because it's like there's a level of like sense of progression which I like to have in my roguelikes so like when you finish a target then you're like all right next like next level essentially that's good it's really good

Have good real fun.

Gerry (46:06.74)
And Aaron, have you... I think you... Aren't you just trying to get through Digimon Survive? Like isn't that what you've been playing for last three months?

Yeah, cuz I was also trying to I was also trying to side bitch modern warfare 3 And some other game I forget but now I'm a whole hogging Digimon survive. I'm on chapter 6 now and Dude, shit's getting nuts. I sent you guys that screenshot in the group chat yesterday Yeah, the dude got fucking eaten

I want to say anything about that. I don't want to spoil it. I know Beth's really interested in the game, but Holy shit, man. Yeah, it's good real good. So Chapter six, I think there's like 12 chapters total so about halfway through Just got so just like the fucking anime like your I Guess like your your your survivors will say like the kids will call them the survivors. Whatever like their partners

Yes, Reviver kids. Yeah, like, you're my color. They're they're part of Digimon at like times of extreme duress or like when they call upon str- I don't know basically like it's just that it just feels so much like a fucking season of the anime and it's so cool like when I got to that part where the dude got eaten and This one Digimon super like dark Digivolves is something else The main character Takuma. He was like fuck

Fuck fuck all come on. I wish I had the the strength to beat this thing I wish we could kill this thing then all the months like you got a dog and then boom ultimate ultimate level evolution unlocked and I guess I Guess the way I play the game. It's all gaman goes to tyrannomon for champion and then try Saramond for ultimate so Yeah, there's options depending on like your morality cuz like

Beth (48:02.894)
There's options.

Aaron (48:10.506)
Lots of dialogue options and it'll be it'll branch into like different there's morality wrathful In harmony, I think is the other one and depending on I guess like your alignment that'll that'll affect how augumon digi evolves and it'll affect a lot of other shit later on down the road

game not get like a 97.

Because people were pissed that it was 70 % visual novel and not more tactics game. That's right. no, fucking, and it's so stupid, like I'm not usually a visual novel guy, but I'm hooked on this because of like how well they develop the characters with the visual novel shit. Like you wouldn't be able to get that. That's just a regular tactic with just fucking 90 % tactics, 10 % visual novel. You wouldn't get that level of character development. Because these motherfuckers.

it that way.

Aaron (49:04.266)
They change so much throughout the story and just like fucking one chapter. It'll they'll go through some super wicked nasty shit, and then they'll be like well Fuck me. I guess I'm not doing that again or something

I've learned my lesson.

Exactly. Like they, change a lot.

was hot guys.

When it's red it hurts. what the fuck. yeah, you can also, like in between, I guess like story missions, you can do these free battles where it won't cost you an action or anything, you can just go do a free battle and just grind a couple levels on some enemies if you want to. But you can also, just like a Shin Megami Tensei game, you can talk to like wild Digimon and try to recruit them. And then you can...

Beth (49:57.358)
That sounds so good.

Yeah, and then and guess what if you did evolve them you don't have to dig evolve them back ever They'll stay in that form I'll be I so they'll still consume what SP or whatever. That's called basically your MP, but

resource gauge they still will use, like take up.

Yep, yep all your Digimon have I'm pretty sure it's just SP your special points and like for champion level I think they consume five every turn or every round and that if it's ultimate they consume ten every whatever and then Yeah, but like your partner Digimon you can D Digivolve them if you're like, fuck I'm getting low on this shit better D Digivolve back to Alguman and fucking save some but my god, it's getting so good man. I

So the No, I can't even mention that either there's just so much cool story shit that I want to talk about but I can't because

Gerry (50:56.248)
These happen is like you and Beth gotta have like a spoiler cast or you

There needs to like it if there's an episode where I'm not on you need to go full digi spoilers

Do

Do you ever listen back to the show though? Like I don't wanna, well I guess I could still mark it with a timestamp.

Yeah, I don't listen back to the shows. I don't even remember the ones I'm on. I swear to God, I go into a fugue state. The episodes end and then I'm like, what did I say? I don't remember.

Aaron (51:20.206)
That's okay.

Aaron (51:35.106)
That is all good. But yeah, this game, this feels like, man, I was talking with a couple people in the Super Pod Network Discord server about like, what's the best Digimon game to start with? And I was like, well, I mean, it depends on what you like, I guess, because this game Survive is, it's like Danganronpa, but like, but a tactics game, because it's got it's so character heavy and just it's it's

very fucking dark at times and

Dude, I can't wait for that remake 2.

They're on sale on switch. I just bought the first two for five bucks a piece

Have you, Aaron, have you ever played Dong Gun Rumble?

Aaron (52:21.026)
I haven't played them, I have the whole, I have the manga series of the first game. So you should.

You shut shut your mouth you're play those games I don't even know

I will.

I love the first one. I so fucking much and I'm so glad I got Jerry to play.

That's the game that turned me man. That's the game that turned me. I'm like, I don't like these games. And then it's like, wait, I do like these games. Just these ones.

Aaron (52:51.342)
Do you like these games?

You can't paint every genre with like a broad brush like that. You're gonna be wrong. I'm just saying that there's like so often there's like you know one game like a for a couple or whatever in any given genre that you just click with. You're like this one's for me. yeah and I'll also totally recommend for anyone who

on

Beth (53:19.854)
like Stongun Rampa or even what you're saying about Digimon Survive, like play 13 Sentinels.

I have I own this I own that game. I do intend on my

I still don't know, that's on my wishlist.

please play 13 Sentinels. It is phenomenal. it also, like Digimon, is definitely way more of that like walking sim narrative heavy visual novel aspect. But it has a really fun intuitive tower defense, like kind of section to it, but they're clearly like broken up. So

And it's like not proportional to how much of the game is like visual novel, but there is still that like element of traditional gameplay in it. But, it's such a good story. It's such a good story. And like I said, I think the, I do think the Tower of Defense is fun in it. So I've tried to get Jerry to play it for years. Please, it's so cool.

Gerry (54:26.5)
I own it. I'm gonna.

It's so good.

So after your Digimon survive, escapade. And I know you said you don't normally do visual novels, but as someone who loves visual novels, and then you saying you like survive and you have interest in Danganronpa, 13 Sentinels is also definitely something that's in that vein, right? There's something there to bite into and kind of go with.

You know what? Hell yeah. Let's bite into a quick commercial break and get into the topic, shall we? Let's do it. We'll be right back.

Let's deal with it.

Aaron (55:08.334)
back.

Aaron (55:18.456)
Hey, we're back. And this time we're gonna do a cool, fun new series or a topic that we're gonna make into a series possibly. We'll see how that goes later on down the road. we're doing what we call series rescue. We're taking some pretty well known series. it's like bar rescue, but for video game series, we're gonna take video game series that are like, yeah, they're floundering, whether it's in sales or...

I guess reception from fans or critics alike basically series that are starting to suck a little bit and we're gonna try to find We're gonna come up with different ways to enhance that series and bring it back just like Just like our boy John Taffer would do on bar rescue He would yell and scream and throw a fit and throw a cup and then he'd be like, hey, man I made you a cool new biker bar, but like halo, right? Like that

save it.

Aaron (56:17.975)
I've got...

I think we all got something in the chamber. I think if I'm gonna be honest, and if you know me and you've been listening to me for any length of time, which thank you if you have been, you know that I'm obsessed with the Mana series. I don't really have a good reason to be, other than those two games on Super Nintendo really did something to me, but.

They were really good.

The hasn't been the same since, in my opinion. I don't think Children of Mana was very good. I don't think Heroes of Mana was

care for legend. Legend wasn't that great to me.

Gerry (57:02.866)
Legend of Mana was absolute dogshit. I thought

The ones on DS any like can get fucked

what call me crazy I don't need a bunch of like brand new mechanics in a man a game you know just

Just make it a good action RPG where you find some companions. Or you know what? I would love, you know how they fix this? You wanna know how they fucking fix this? They need to bring back the system from Secret of Mana 2 or Trials of Mana. I guess that's actually Secret, yeah, Secret of Mana 2 I guess, but Second Incest 3.

They need to bring back how you can just choose a main character and then two other party members. Like you build your own story, essentially. I think that's a cool way to do it. Where, depending on who you choose as the main character, it has a completely different intro and a completely different ending. And then depending on who you pick, you get to see glimpses into their backstories.

Aaron (58:15.373)
Yeah.

Gerry (58:22.414)
throughout the game and like you see the people that they're fighting with or like what's driving them in the story. You still get that with like, mean, Visions of Mana was good. Let's just get that out of the way. Visions of Mana was good, but they shuttered that whole team immediately after the game launched.

Wasn't wasn't visions basically a call back to those those two man a game?

think what they did with Visions is that they really took the success, because while there has been some floundering in the series, it's mostly been floundering, they've seen some kind of unprecedented success with Trials of Mana Remake. When they announced that, I was like, what's happening right now? It's one of my favorite games of all time that I feel like nobody knew about.

There's a very select few people on this planet that I've interacted with that know what that game was. And I feel like seeing that remake was like, OK, you're trying something different with this, I guess, which is cool. And then it successful. So I think that was their cue to be like, this is what the people want. They want like an like a action RPG, like, you know, third.

third person action RPG, you're going around and you're just, you know, doing your thing. But what was really cool is that they stuck to the whole like you get to choose your character as your main, and then you get to choose your two companions. I say bring that back.

Beth (01:00:06.168)
Yeah, that like something that makes it unique in the genre and stuff. So that's something that makes it stand next to and differentiate itself from its contemporaries, as they say. But you know what? Since I knew you liked Visions, you had a good time with it, what would you take from Visions? Dream it up. What would you take from Visions that you were like, this feels like it's getting back on track?

And then kind of then going back to what you're saying about how really with the first two that you played were that special spark. So how would you kind of combine them or kind of in a way cherry pick out the things that you like about it and reinvent it going forward?

Glad you asked, Beth. I think I would, the one thing that I was like, yes, it had a world map. It had a world map that eventually you get an airship and you to fly around all free. it had that. Dragon Quest XI also has that.

you

That game is a masterpiece, by the way. But this game had the world map. And I'm starting to realize that I want mechanics from the old, because like, here's the thing, guys. I don't know if you knew this or not, but people seem to be running out of ideas and they keep remaking old games because they were really fucking good. So you know what? You don't need to remake these games. Just take.

Gerry (01:01:48.278)
the things that made the games good and just remake that. know? take, like that's why Sea of Stars was like, yeah man, this is Chrono Trigger. Like, we took the battle system from Chrono Trigger. That's what this

I think.

Aaron (01:02:02.71)
I was gonna say that about like, Claire Obscura as well too, like a lot of people were like, holy shit, this is like 16 different RPGs like melded together, but in its own like original packaging pretty much.

Turns out people fucking want it. They want that shit. They fucking want it. They've been

I to say something that me and Jerry can definitely agree on with Claire Obscure is that both of us were so happy with being a world map and a conversation I think we had even after the game. We both had finished the game. was like, something that I really hope people take away from this game and its success is bringing back

and just modernizing these, these like kind of traditional qualities and aspects like they're being in a world map. And because that is something that like, you know, series that I'm not, I'm not talking about this, like I'm not bringing it up in, it's not going to be my, my example. But that was something that like the Tales series really lost was feeling really grand when it got rid of its world map.

because they were such like a, like a globe, that globe trotting experience that felt like this was something that encompassed and had concept.

Gerry (01:03:28.662)
Tales of Symphonia did that expertly.

And then, so like, but it was something, you know, and when they, when they switched away, no, I have beef with it. It's not that it's bad. have personal beef.

Yeah.

Aaron (01:03:52.315)
Genus the penis on him in his fucking ball in a cup whatever stupid

Bitch he was.

So many pointless characters. nope, not talking about it. But, and that's, I love, love, love, love some of those new games. Like I really do, I'm not saying that they, like I'm not talking about like, but there is something that feels lost in them when you do just have like, kind of like slightly open areas.

between dungeon and city or corridors that you're running between dungeons.

Visions had like some open areas. Yeah, but it wasn't like I Don't I can't remember it's been a while since I played that but I remember thinking it was okay like you had mounts and stuff that you could get on which were like it was fine and like Areas felt like levels kind of the way that they did in trials of mana, which that's another thing too What I think is Something that worked for these old games, which I think could help

Gerry (01:05:02.306)
bring this series back to its roots even more is to make the game somewhat linear for the first like third of the game where it's like, yep, here's your first, like here's your grasslands area. And then, there's an ice cave. And then there's gonna be like a icy kind of boss. And then you get through that and then you go to like this new town or like a port city. And then you're like, fuck, we gotta figure out how to get up this mountain.

How are we gonna do that? gotta figure out, we gotta talk to these people in this town or something. this guy is like going up with his little rock climbing thing. We gotta go with that guy. And then you go up to the mountain and then you fight a boss up there and then it leads you. But then eventually you get to a point where it's like, hey, we can make your lives so much easier. We got this ship for you that you can just take out on the water and you're like, yes. And you get a little bit of freedom where you're like, ooh, I can go to that place and I can go to that place and what's this thing over here? And it allows you to start to explore a bit more. And I think.

by doing that and then slowly letting you see how big the world is without getting too complicated. And I think that's one thing that Claire Obscure did it very well was like it kind of spoon fed you a little bit. Like, yeah, check out this world map a little bit more. Yeah, poke around a little bit more. Okay, now you got like, now you got a water thing that you can go around to some of these new areas in the water. And then eventually you get like flying in the air. But like, that's what I think makes those games so tight. I also think

Not making these games have the ability to do co-op kind of detracts from the initial vision of these games because those first two, the first one you could use a fucking, the multi-tap on Super Nintendo and you could play four player, or three players with the first game. You could only do two officially with trials of mana, but there's mods out there that you

Thanks

Beth (01:06:55.33)
You

Yeah, they found ways. They found ways that you can do three player. But they've never been, and I think Legend of Mana had some really stupid co-op. Like you didn't get to choose a character or anything. Like it was just like, here's this stupid other character that you get to be that's dumb and you don't want to be. I think if they brought back co-op, dude, can you imagine if they brought three player co-op back to the Mana series? I would totally buy.

both of you a copy just to play with me and force you to play with me or I would

And if you get to pick your character and shit, like if it kind of turned into, if it turned into that type of game where you're like, all right guys, let's fucking, let's fucking roll, pick your characters, let's go. So like each player can pick their own fucking character and.

Yeah, I mean, you could do that essentially with Secret of Mana 2, because you could be like, hey, I'm going to pick this guy as the main character. And then who do you want to be? And you'd be like, oh, I want to be Angela, the witch. And you'd be like, cool. And then if you have a third, be like, who do you want to be? I want to be Kevin the fucking werewolf, which sounds ridiculous. Witch. Angela's cool, man. I like her. She's cool as fuck. Yeah.

Aaron (01:08:01.325)
Yeah.

Beth (01:08:07.266)
This is me. I want to be Angela the way.

Kevin Woo

Gerry (01:08:17.166)
I what it boils down to is like just take some of the formula from the old games. I'm talking to you, Square Enix. Yeah, listen to me for a second.

Get him on the phone.

Hang on guys, I'm just gonna talk to Square-EX

Yeah.

Gerry (01:08:37.261)
Don't fuck this up next time. I'll look away. Don't fuck this up. Don't shudder a team immediately after they release a game that fans actually liked for the first time in years. just because it didn't meet your sales demand, don't shudder them. That's step one. Don't do that. Step two, world map, make it a little linear. Let it cook a little bit as you go along.

expectation.

Aaron (01:09:07.47)
step three, market the game better. So it sells better.

Also, yeah, because visions didn't really have any of that.

Crazy how though, they're like, wouldn't put any money into the marketing and then we're like, didn't sell enough. It's like, well, what did you do? What were you doing?

Yeah. But I think, and the other thing is too, like, if they bring back the ability to select a character, don't make a meal out of this. Don't be like, and then you get stat points. Like, you customize your character shit. Don't do that. Don't do none of that. give me, here's the thing. I keep saying this. Just remake.

the components that made these games good. Don't remake the games, remake the components. Go back, go back and find out what made this game like a step forward for the genre. Because I know that Beth, you don't know a lot about the Mana series, like it's like pretty well revered, I think among people in...

Gerry (01:10:21.934)
the space of like JRPGs and stuff, especially those early ones, like people talk very highly of them, especially the, here's another thing too, man. You gotta square your neck. Guys, can you give us a second? Square your necks. Don't fuck up the soundtrack. You gotta keep that soundtrack. Yeah, you gotta, and you have to make it very organic. Okay? Lots of like flutes, pan flutes, like xylophones and shit, bells.

One track from secret of mana where has that like whale that whale song in it was like And like I'm pretty sure that was the screen

That's not a song, that's just a sound effect.

But it's part of the song it's part of it

That title screen song is like, man, I could just fucking cry.

Beth (01:11:11.848)
say that like yes yes like i don't know never played them don't know much about them but i'm sure like as a huge fan of kingdom hearts i have a lot to be grateful to the manna series for no no what i'm saying is like you were saying that like yeah like the influential like the so like i've got

I think he-

Gerry (01:11:34.094)
They definitely were,

I'm sure there's other games that influenced that game to be what it was.

Gerry (01:11:50.094)
Yeah, like the hack and slash.

Yeah, like Square, that's like the same company. like, I'm sure there was some like aspects of like, there, there, there was like, I'm guys, this is side note for you. And if the listeners if they want, we don't cut this out. I'm so fucking tired. My brain, my brain is making like, like fan noises, I think when it's there. Yeah, like it's

That was me during game of the year when you were like you didn't explain your hidden gem well enough I was like it was like the windows xp

I'm trying so hard to find words. they're all gone. But I think like the.

So Beth, what's the matter with trials of mana that you don't want to play that game?

Beth (01:12:54.83)
Nothing's the matter with it. It's not that I... Here is... is a problem.

Because if you like Kingdom Hearts, the gameplay is like pretty fucking similar. I would actually almost say, look, you can take this however you want, but it's the gameplay itself, like the combat is way better than Kingdom Hearts' combat.

Yeah, you would like the remake for sure.

Beth (01:13:21.102)
think that's personal preference, probably speaking, but okay. I think that we need to reframe this, okay? Jerry, like sit with me for a moment. There needs to be a reframing of some type here because you're saying you don't, what's the problem with it that you don't want to play it?

It's just very good.

Beth (01:13:50.92)
no negative feeling towards it. there's also, it's not, it's not even like a, I don't want to. It's that that's like, that's an emotion that I don't have towards it. That's an actionable thing that I just don't have towards it. What the problem is, is like a, is on a larger scale. And then a larger scale being games.

Yep.

Yeah, and when I win Because I have I have I have it in my PlayStation wishlist and an issue that

It's on PlayStation Plus.

Not anymore. No.

Gerry (01:14:39.854)
It's not?

Okay, give me a second with Square Enix again. put it back on PlayStation Plus, because we got like, we're the best at it somehow, okay? Because like, she's not gonna fucking buy it. Because you guys don't market these things well enough. doesn't fucking, it's not gonna be me convincing her. You guys are gonna fucking do it. So fucking, all right. Go ahead.

I was just gonna say that like, it's just the unfortunate thing that now that it's not on PlayStation, when it goes on sale, there are other things that also then maybe go on sale, like I don't know, Stellar Blade, for example, which is literally what happened. tried and Stellar Blade were both on sale at the same time. But Stellar Blade was on sale for $50.

I can't

normally like 100. And so like, I just was like, this is the opportunity. So I just, so it's like, I just don't want to.

Gerry (01:15:37.87)
That's good Albert.

opportunity.

Aaron (01:15:49.134)
It's okay, Beth, it's okay. Jerry, is there anything else you want to change about the mana series?

See you.

Gerry (01:15:58.624)
Aaron, what were you gonna say?

man, I have two big series, but god damn, I'm gonna pick one. So my series that I desperately wanna fix is the Mario and Luigi series.

my god, yes please, fix it.

It's been like the PlayStation, my god, we're so back, we're so cooked, we're so back, we're so cooked. like, Superstar Saga is perfect.

Do you consider Mario RPG the first one though?

Aaron (01:16:32.48)
Not really, because Mario and Luigi is literally just Mario and Luigi, but in Japan they all have the same gameplay mechanics.

the name of it in Japan.

isn't it just like Mario RPG or some shit?

Super Mario RPG 2.

okay. Well, I guess so. Yeah. Well, I mean

Beth (01:16:49.32)
Jerry out of here. We don't need a-

I don't even know if that's real. I gotta look that up. on.

Okay, So yeah, the Mario RPG or no, holy shit. This is the Mario and Luigi series It's got a super spotty track record because yeah superstar saga. They fucking knocked it out of the park first try Which I mean, I guess they had some help from the first Mario RPG whatever and then partners in time they were like they kind of mocked it a little bit but it was still good and then Bowser's inside story even more perfect or I'm gonna use that word perfect or hell yeah, and then

And then it took a nosedive because fucking dream team was just like every 10 minutes. Hey, here's a tutorial for how to do this. you learn how to fucking jump, dude. Here's how to jump. I'll tell you how. Here's how to jump. Like that a tutorial for fucking everything. And they tried to shoehorn in all sorts of fucking gimmicks from the 3DS hardware. Like all of your bro's moves had to do with like gyroscope shit with the 3DS or like

using the 3D to see shit in the background and hit A to do whatever or like using the touchscreen and shit.

Beth (01:18:00.728)
Take it out back and shoot it.

they should have but guess what? Then came paper jam and they did even more of that. paper Mario's in it. boy

That didn't need to happen

And then they brought it all back with Brother ship, which was like in so many fucking ways. It's my like my favorite in the series, but I also fucking hate it because it's so long. It's fucking 30 hours too long. When I beat that fucking game, my play time was goddamn near 60 hours. A Mario RPG should not be 60 hours like.

necessary.

Aaron (01:18:43.209)
So much fucking fluff.

is already too much for a Mario RPG.

Yeah, like 25 hours.

Not even, dude. Give me 15 to 20 hours max.

15 to 20 with 30 hours plus side content. That'd be good. hours would be 100%.

Aaron (01:18:56.011)
But like

Gerry (01:19:04.718)
How do you fix it though? How do you fix that?

That's all of it.

Think I think what they do Honestly with brother ship it kind of felt like they were just like We want to make this game as big as possible and they just they were like hey Do you guys have any idea for any ideas for this? I sure fucking do all right add it in I think what they need to do is what they did with fucking Superstar Saga Just keep it simple man. Don't add too much

It's fine if it's smaller, like that's what we want from a fucking Mario game. We don't want like, we don't want Final Fantasy or Wild Arms here, we just want a Mario RPG. Keep it light, keep it tight, keep it small. And

Light, and small. That's how we roll here, baby! Hell yeah!

Aaron (01:19:57.542)
and

Also over the age of 18.

Exactly.

I mean, yes, it goes without saying if we're going to look at it that way.

Aaron (01:20:10.774)
Another thing to Another great thing they did with brother ship that they should do with the series going forward Is that the bros moves just use like a and B in the control stick to move? That's that's how it should be don't incorporate this other garbage. That's a

Yeah.

Beth (01:20:31.084)
Wow, can see with it.

So, peace out.

No one asked for it. I don't know why they did.

I think Nintendo is at its best when it's not trying to get fancy with the formula that works because most of the time, like people might want to say like, you know, you know, every Nintendo game is just the same as the last like version of whatever. Okay. Fun to play. Sells well. They do a really good job with it. So why the hell should they be doing?

With a cheese whiz

Beth (01:21:07.639)
You know?

Just like with Pokemon like sure it's the same formula every time but they change it up with with like new Locations new Pokemon new items. They make it look prettier. Yeah, like that's That's yeah, that's that's what I want with Mario and Luigi man like just Streamline it more don't put so much pointless shit into it. Just like keep the story. You know what? Yeah, keep the story like compact

And like yeah sure you can have side shit but like also holy shit brother ship had so many goddamn fetch quests that were part of the story you had to do them. There's no way to get around them. Don't do that.

Yeah, because there's no way in no, there's no way on God's green earth that you're making a Mario Luigi game almost 60 hours without a astronomical amount of unnecessary side quest or like that's quest fluff because like what the hell.

Are you even doing it? That's what I mean. A Mario and Luigi game that warrants the 60 hours? People should be losing their minds in the streets and coming up and be like, my God.

Beth (01:22:14.158)
for 60 hours in a 60

Aaron (01:22:24.27)
Have you played the new Mario and Luigi games? The greatest thing I've ever played in

Like eyes are like burning out of their face because they can't comprehend how fucking good this Mario and Luigi game is cuz it's 60 hours long Nobody did that. Yeah, nobody says shit about this game

It all just feels like they were like, dude, we could make this new Mario and Luigi game, but let's make it big and fucking bombastic. Like bombastic they did, but it's too big. They jammed entirely too many ideas into it. I think that's what really killed it for me, because the combat, they nailed it. The combat rules, the music rules, the hub area, and the way that you connect islands to...

to reconnect all of Concordia or whatever. That was cool. Like everything, well not everything, a lot of aspects of that game were really fucking good. And probably my favorite, like in the series, except for the length, because again, yeah, for the millionth time, it's just too much. Just too much.

I think dude like they need to The reason why I brought up Super Mario RPG is because that was a formula that worked and it kind of made sense because It's a fucking Mario game that they turned into an RPG So it wasn't until the remake came out that I it kind of clicked when I was Revisiting that game because that game is very very important and special to me personally So when I revisited it

Gerry (01:23:57.366)
It was like this light bulb moment of finally in my adulthood. I'm like, I understand now what they were doing. It's so linear because it's literally levels. You're on a world map and you're going, beep, beep. So all the levels are like these areas, but then like there's towns and stuff that you got to go back to and revisit. like these, these levels were like the areas that you play through and like story beats would happen in the levels.

Or sometimes they wouldn't really. Maybe it was just like a level for being a level. And they just incorporated so many cool things by keeping it that way. That like, it never really branched off. Like it's a fairly linear game, but like again.

That's fine.

Like, we don't need it to be a 60 hour fucking reinvent RPGs.

It's not an epic, it's a Mario game.

Aaron (01:24:54.06)
Yeah, well guess what they made it epic they made this like big jagged So alright, so there were at least like three points throughout the story where it felt like the game was coming to an end But they were like, guess what the bad guy isn't actually dead He's transforming into this and then yeah, there were like three points like that throughout the whole game And then like all throughout the game. They're like all do the power of bonds power of friendship power of bonds bonds from

Brotherhood and bonds from marriage and bonds from this like

It's shown in anime. Well, a bonds of French

This is a Hallmark channel.

Has to Making everything a fucking baby stop making these fucking baby games Jesus Christ Fucking baby games man. I'm getting tired of shit these fucking baby games where they're just like

Aaron (01:25:49.966)
Yeah, you gotta be super nice and cool to your friends because they're the best thing in your life. that's cool. That's really cool. Following directions. Yeah. Following the law.

You what's really cool kids?

Mario Mario's like it's like a guy Mario suit just being like hey kids Hey kids, don't do drug or do drugs. I don't care

Every time he takes the mushroom he thinks he's big and strong and crushing Chippity's

You guys don't like drugs, what? You don't like mushrooms? I love mushrooms.

Aaron (01:26:27.818)
just passed out on this like no sheet mattress in the back alley like

It's a green mattress and he thinks it's a dinosaur that he can walk on.

I

I was gonna say my hair. My new theory that I came up with right now is that, I mean, he is just a plumber. He's just an Italian plumber who was fucked up on magic mushrooms and is imagining this kingdom. And the reason why he's like Princess Peach is because he's just like got like, know, peaches in the frigate, like, you know, on the counter and he like really wants to eat them.

Luigi's Mansion isn't about Luigi looking for Mario because he's captured by Boo. It's just like, that's what Mario, like real life Mario, is thinking that Luigi's doing, but really he's just like, cooked out of his fucking mind, folding all- yeah, he's just like in an alleyway somewhere, like fucking Fenty folding, and Luigi's like-

Beth (01:27:15.694)
I'm having a bad trip.

Aaron (01:27:21.666)
fucking opiate and he's fucking out of his brain.

He's looking like everywhere in Brooklyn from he's just like going down like back

It's not a mansion. It's a big fucking opium den and he's like Mario as he's being like clawed out by like feral opium fucking addicted motherfucker Doing the ghost laugh

Like MARION-

The traditional Mario games are Mario, like, in his home, you know, having a good trip. Like, he's got, like, a comfort blanket and a safe space.

Gerry (01:27:53.006)
off like that. It's just like he gets like a letter from Beach just to be like come check out my castle and then he trips balls and like the castle goes up into the air and everybody's fucking made of paper and shit like yeah dude is tripping balls.

And then, like, know, anything that's like, you know, Luigi's Mansion or something like that is a badge. Luigi's Mansion?

He's

It's okay, you're tired go ahead, but it's right I heard Luigi's Mansion. I heard it just fine. I when you say

Say what is

Beth (01:28:33.577)
you're thinking like said, Luigi's like it was the fucking.

It was the-

Yeah, the garlic place the place that sells the garlic

It's our like

Dude, geez, man. Orphans.

Beth (01:28:46.958)
For Aaron and the listeners benefit, Jerry, why don't you describe why we are having this moment?

It's just so fucking-

Gerry (01:28:55.468)
Because it's like a very popular pizza place from where we're from on the east coast of Canada And it's called Louie L O U I S G's G E E N And it literally has Here's the confusing part The logo has a Mario brother on it But it's not the right one It's not Luigi It's the one that looks like Mario So super fucking

Got that, yeah. Good.

Aaron (01:29:19.299)
You

And the reason I said it was the garlic place because I'm allergic to tomatoes. that sells me.

You're allergic to tomatoes?

I'm allergic to tomatoes, so I can't have pizza.

terrified of attack of the killer tomatoes.

Aaron (01:29:37.71)
a terrifying spaghetti.

100%. Yes, but in Newfoundland, and I guess like Atlanta, Canada, there there's something they call garlic fingers, which is pizza dough, and then garlic butter and cheese. It's so and they're at every pizza place you go to. So that's, mean,

I think Eric could have got there without the description. I think he could have.

I have for-

I've got oh Beth. Okay. I've got something good for you. So let so here This gas station no no no so okay so in in I will be of this gas station chain called Casey's and they have the most fucking like insane direct bills pizza, so it's like Yeah, so it's just obviously crust, but they have this like cheese sauce. It's like a real savory cheese sauce and then eggs bacon and or sausage and or green peppers and then of course cheese and then

Aaron (01:30:29.878)
You know, they cook it, obviously it gets all nice and crispy and then bam, breakfast pizza, no tomatoes. Just like a mama used to make.

gonna I think I'm I think we're gonna take a hard pass on that one

What the fuck? Why?

I'm not with you dude on this one. I can't I can't

You guys come down to Iowa. This will change your mind. Not for this. It's awesome.

Beth (01:30:55.49)
There's of eggs and all of that on it.

I can hear Greg screaming now. I can hear Greg screaming now as he listens back to this episode. He's going to lose his fucking mind when he hears.

Why?

It's ju- it's- know what?

He can talk, he can speak for himself.

Gerry (01:31:18.029)
can speak for himself.

bye.

No, I don't want to hear it anymore, I'm I'm kidding, kidding, go ahead.

No, is there anything else you wanted to say about Luigi?

Luigi.

Aaron (01:31:32.142)
Marlin, Luigi

Aaron (01:31:37.52)
Mario

Please make a pizza

Aaron (01:31:45.752)
Just to sum it up, like, take, basically just take everything cool from Brother-ship, which is like everything, but like, dumb the story down a lot, because it doesn't need to be as fucking big and full of garbage. That is all. Fantastic. Rest my case, Your Honor.

You rest. Yes. May you rest.

paths.

Aaron (01:32:09.08)
Beth, you have the floor.

Okay, I will try and be quick and brief-ish. As much as I'm capable of. I'm gonna say that I bring to the floor the Atelier series.

quick.

Gerry (01:32:28.48)
Interesting. No, no nothing.

I think this might be like a bit quicker because maybe there's not much, you that you guys know even maybe anal like tangentially and stuff. I'm going way back because I I played Atelier Iris like the first one and I love Atelier Iris. Yes, and it is way

Little.

Aaron (01:32:53.966)
PS2,

Beth (01:32:59.496)
way more of your traditional linear JRPG style game. It had a character in it that I absolutely love, spent way too much time leveling up and putting all of my good gear on who dies right before the last dungeon and you don't get any your stuff from him. It hurts. But it was such, it was really good. But it's very structured like an old school traditional JRPG.

And they did a couple, they three irises. And then, you know what, to be fair.

Sharingan.

They have a third eye. To be fair, I didn't follow too much of the timeline of it, but I think that they did like the first three Iris games, and then they maybe took like a long break or a hiatus, and then they came back with Atelier Rerona. Or at least, Atelier Rerona is the first one of this kind of new style iteration of the Atelier series. And there were some fun things that were added in the

new series, one being the unbelievably addicting alchemy system. I truly it wasn't in the beginning. The main character wasn't

Aaron (01:34:19.266)
this part of it from the beginning?

Gerry (01:34:24.674)
What I know that series for.

The main character was an alchemist. So there was like, um, kind of plot points of him needing to create things, but there was no crafting system. Like that's what I mean. It was a, was like final fantasy or, know, um, I guess kind of like wild arms or all of those types of games. was just like that. There was nothing extra in there. Um, and so I do love the crafting system.

Like

Beth (01:34:56.396)
But, and this is maybe where fans of the series will try and kill me, but I think that the story just is like never been as good or interesting since the Iris games. I don't think many of the characters are that compelling or interesting either. The way that you...

learn about the characters the way that there are things that are just missable like events that are missable like days that if you're crafting if you're crafting on those days then you don't get to do those things but like when you're trying to craft items it's like this will take four days and it just does it anyway so you don't even know that those things are coming up

So you miss out on those four days because you had to craft those things for four days? that how? That's stupid.

And for the... And then for like a chunk of those games, like this new iteration, they were on a three year time limit. And thank fucking God, they fight, like they got rid of it. They did get rid of it. But they still didn't get rid of the way like that the story was dulled out or the way that like you got to know the characters and everything like that.

To be fair, this combat hasn't even been this.

Beth (01:36:25.656)
There you go. They've been recently with Yumiya like trying, they did something different with the combat, but I don't think it was a good change. And the reason why I use it as my example is because I personally would really like them to kind of go back to their roots a little bit more with the Atelier Iris trilogy. But even saying

of this new version, these new iterations, they've been slowly declining in quality over the last few as well. I know one of the criteria of like, what we were talking about is like maybe sales drop off. I can't speak to that. I genuinely don't know the numbers on it. I know that like the riser.

general consensus is enough of a metric to be like, the entire fan base of this series is like, this kind of sucks now. We would like to be better.

No.

The Honorable Judge John Taffer says this is fine, so please continue.

Beth (01:37:30.04)
I was just gonna say that like, I think the general consensus in the community was that you Mia wasn't good. And the one before that I don't remember right now also seems to have like dipped off. But I kind of give this a little bit of like, why I'm saying maybe controversially people would

in the fandom might not fully agree is because Ryza, the Ryza series is like very beloved. And that had all these hallmarks that I'm kind of bitching about other than they did get rid of the time limit, which was good. But I just I think that like, since it's been dropping, declining in quality, since they clearly are like trying to go in a new direction with Yumiya, and it's kind of flopped in terms of quality.

I think that now is a really good time for it to reinvent itself again. To do that. And if you need to keep the anime girl aesthetic so you can sell an astronomical, a ridiculous amount of figurines and models, because like, I swear to God, like those figurines of Ryza are stings.

lot of hot

keeping that company like rolling in it. So like if you need to kind of keep that like that, you know, anime ass girl aesthetic that is clearly, you know, doing them numbers financially. Absolutely. But don't get rid of that alchemy system. was literally the only reason I've been playing the game. Please somehow keep it incorporated.

Gerry (01:39:19.557)
Don't touch it

I gotta wonder.

linear traditional story.

Is the voice acting good in these? just immediately picture it just being like the most ass of voice acting. Like children being like, no, what are we doing? Like it's just soulless, terrible voice.

Sonic Adventure type shit.

Beth (01:39:45.886)
So for better and for worse, they haven't really had an English voice acting in any, like most of them. Yeah. So that's what I mean. The only thing being that I would say for the, like I say for the better and the worse.

for the better.

with Digimon Survive.

Gerry (01:40:05.762)
Sorry, I'm laughing at Eric because he sounded like a fucking pirate when he said that.

So does the city man survive? Why'd spill your beans? I've got the scurvy. Sorry, Beth. You have the work still. Sustain.

B.

Continue.

No, too tired, thought gone. I'll say that. because of the amount of dialogue that is in these games, though, and then the way that it kind of tells its story in a weird, like it doesn't really do a great job in telling its story and telling the character stories and stuff like that. I'm saying that it makes it even harder to get invested in any of these characters.

Beth (01:40:49.824)
when you're just like reading sitting there hitting A, getting through dialogue and stuff like that. walls of text, like the cut scenes are really too long.

Walls of text kind of

Aaron (01:41:06.828)
I've that before. Stairs of Brothership.

I really think

But like really what I think that like Yeah, like I didn't have to listen to really shitty voice acting because there was really bad voice acting in we're wrong. my god, we're Rona

La-La-La-La-Rana? La-Rana?

Maroney Kenshin

Beth (01:41:27.2)
Yeah, Jesus Christ. In that one, her voice, not great. In English. But I think that there is a little bit of like a disconnect that comes in when it is just like so much Japanese, like just these Japanese voices and an insane amount of dialogue. So I think that it wouldn't hurt for it to be more focused in how it wants to tell its stories. And then

stop delegating all of the side characters development development stories in general to just side content for doing like quests for like they'll come in and they'll be like can you make this for me and you go okay but if you never do that one if you never make you know that saying it if you never make them five healing bombs and give it to them then you never learn about them

they're in your party for the whole game. And you're just so I just I don't think the way that is structured and the way that you you go move through the games are engaging enough to hold people necessarily, especially when you're not when you're not following it up with like fun solid gameplay, because that was a big thing with Yumiya like Yumiya. I don't think people connected with like the direction that they were going with.

the new direction with the combat and they tried to make it open world, but they clearly didn't have the money or the time or something for it. Cause everything is like flat grasslands. Like it looked so bad. It looks so bad. So I would like it to really kind of.

So what would you say would be your top three things that they need to change to make this work?

Aaron (01:43:21.622)
New three bullet points for the

Three bullet points.

change or I would say

I know, tired. We're almost done.

We're almost saying like compacted down pretty much, right?

Beth (01:43:37.112)
So from the old Iris series, focus the story and focus on intertwining and enmeshing the side characters into that main narrative.

condense.

Beth (01:43:57.986)
Do not get rid of the alchemy system. That is definitely really good, but pair it into some type of city building or like resource building mini like, you know, side quest thing, like make it there's a village or a town or a, I don't know, something that you are doing that for to rebuild or, you know, make better. I don't know.

Lastly...

What were the other two things you said?

combat?

no. the lastly, this is another the way the overworld system was done for Iris and then even the early like this new kind of iteration of the Atelier games is fine. You don't need an open world. You're not an open world game. Put it away.

Aaron (01:44:56.504)
fucking preach it for everybody that can't hear it. If you're not an open world game, don't be an open world game.

Open world game. I think that maybe that's the lesson of today is if you're not already an open world game Don't be one. Don't don't kid yourself. You're not one. You're not gonna be one right buddy. Yeah, we're not We're like What I thought we couldn't hear

That dog agrees with us.

Yeah, Luigi the dog agrees with us.

We definitely agrees he's our tour manager and yeah, what do think buddy?

Aaron (01:45:32.962)
Motherfucker.

to hear first folks. All right. Well, that'll do it for our first volume of series rescue. Hope you liked it. If you did give us

Look at his little face.

Aaron (01:45:45.614)
us a little, give us a little love.

Where is it? Does it go up there or does it go down here? I don't even know where the fuck anything is on YouTube anymore. I just watched video

I don't know.

big yawns, sorry to your dogs.

Okay.

Aaron (01:45:57.495)
Yeah, just let us know let us know that you liked this let us know we don't like I don't know give us some kind of feedback or direction And we'll keep doing it.

And if you really, really hated it, ask Jerry online.

We'll just do another one Eat a whole bag of dicks. Don't care. We'll just keep doing them. Try us. Try. No, I'm just kidding. We love you. All right. Well, I guess that does it for today's episode. Catch us on the next one. We love you. Bye bye.

Yes.

Beth (01:46:29.55)
EEEE

Peace! Bye bye! Joey, them to to SuperGhost.Site. That's it, bye.